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House Impeachment Inquiry: 11/15/2019 Closed Door Hearing

11/28/2019

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Friday afternoon’s deposition (November 15, 2019) with State Department aide David Holmes was held behind closed doors. His opening statement was obtained by CNN.
Opening statement of State Department Aide David Holmes:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/david-holmes-testimony/index.html
Excerpt from opening statement:
During the lunch, Ambassador Sondland said that he was going to call President Trump to give him an update. Ambassador Sondland placed a call on his mobile phone, and I heard him announce himself several times, along the lines of "Gordan Sondland holding for the President." It appeared that he was being transferred through several layers of switchboards and assistants. I then noticed Ambassador Sondland's demeanor change, and understood that he had been connected to President Trump. While Ambassador Sondland's phone was not on speakerphone, I could hear the President's voice through the earpiece of the phone. The President's voice was very loud and recognizable, and Ambassador Sondland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time, presumably because of the loud volume.
I heard Ambassador Sondland greet the President and explain that he was calling from Kyiv. I heard President Trump then clarify that Ambassador Sondland was in Ukraine. Ambassador Sondland replied, yes, he was in Ukraine and went on to state that President Zelenskyy "loves your ass." I then heard President Trump ask, "So, he' s gonna do the investigation?" Ambassador Sondland replied that "he's gonna do it," adding that President Zelenskyy will do "anything you ask him to.” Even though I did not take notes of these statements, have a clear recollection that these statements were made. I believe that my colleagues who were sitting at the table also knew that Ambassador Sondland was speaking with the President.
The conversation then shifted to Ambassador Sondland' s efforts, on behalf of the President, to assist a rapper who was jailed in Sweden, and I could only hear Ambassador Sondland's side of that part of the conversation. Ambassador Sondland told the President that the rapper was “kind of f----d there,” and “should have pled guilty.” He recommended that the President “wait until after the sentencing or it will make it worse,” that the President should “let him get sentenced, play the racism card, give him a ticker-tape when he comes home.” Ambassador Sondland further told the President that Sweden “should have released him on your word,” that “you can tell the Kardashians you tried.” After the call ended, AmbassadorSondland remarked that the President was in a bad mood, as Ambassador Sondland stated was often the case early in the morning. I then took the opportunity to ask Ambassador Sondland for his candid impression of the President's views on Ukraine. In particular, I asked Ambassador Sondland if it was true that the President did not “give a s--t about Ukraine.” Ambassador Sondland agreed that the President did not “give a s--t about Ukraine.” I asked why not, and Ambassador Sondland stated that the President only cares about “big stuff.” I noted that there was “big stuff” going on in Ukraine, like a war with Russia, and Ambassador Sondland replied that he meant “big stuff” that benefits the President, like the Biden investigation Mr. Giuliani was pushing. The conversation then moved on to other topics. Upon returning to the Embassy, I immediately told the Deputy Chief of Mission and others at the Embassy about the call with the President and my conversation with Ambassador Sondland. I also emailed an Embassy official in Sweden regarding the issue with the U. S. rapper that was discussed on the call.
July 26 was my last day in the office ahead of a planned vacation that ended on August 6 . After returning to the Embassy, I told Ambassador Taylor about the July 26 call. I also repeatedly referred to the call and conversation with Ambassador Sondland in meetings and conversations where the issue of the President's interest in Ukraine was potentially relevant. At that time, AmbassadorSondland' s statement of the President’s lack of interest in Ukraine was of particular focus. We understood that in order to secure a meeting between President Trump and President Zelenskyy, we would have to work hard to find a way to explain Ukraine's importance to President Trump in terms that he found compelling.
Washington Post reporter Aaron Blake explains that Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland previously told Congress that he had no knowledge of President Trump and personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani’s interest in Ukraine launching investigations into the Bidens:
And now Holmes undermines a central claim in Sondland’s testimony: That Sondland didn’t know that Trump and his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani’s interest in investigating a Ukrainian company that employed Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden had anything to do with the Biden family.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/16/big-developments-david-holmess-testimony/
This could potentially lead to a charge of perjury against Ambassador Sondland, for lying in his testimony to Congress.

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